Guest Allen Wixted

Dave: Hello, and welcome to the podcast, I’m your host, Dave Albert. In the show, I talk about technology, building a company as a CTO and co founder, and have guests to discuss their roles in technology and entrepreneurship.

Today, we’re joined by Allen Wixted founder of no place like, an a company in the augmented reality space here in in Dublin, Ireland. Thanks for joining us Allen. I really appreciate it.

Allen: Thanks so much for having me, Dave. Really looking forward to chatting with you again.

Dave: Yeah, absolutely. So could you tell us a little bit about you and no place like?

Allen: Yeah, for sure. So I kind of started out with the augmented reality in, it was a bit of a strange way. I bought a Xbox Connect, I’d say maybe in 2013/2014 for 25 euros, I think in CEX was second hand. And I think it may even didn’t have a box with it. And but I discovered kind of a little reprogramming with it in processing. And I’d say there’s maybe about roughly zero to 1% of your audience who knows what processing is, it’s like a Java language, I think, developed from MIT. And it was just such a fun way to learn to code because it was so visual. And it was just, it was so amazing to start just literally see something type into a screen and some crazy stuff pop up on the other side of it was just kind of revolutionary for me. And with the Connect, I said, I’m working on this like little retail project for my funnel your projects in college, where you could walk past the shop window, the Connect would pick you up and track some information along the window to you. So like whether it’s the latest shoes in the store, or even just more of kind of an artistic display where I think I had like lots of particles and stuff and nearly melted my old mac book with practical effects back in the day. The framework said that and processing. And so that’s kind of that’s kind of where I got into code. And I was like this is so this is kind of cool. And I like to the business aspects to it where I was like, Oh, yeah, I can kind of see this in a in a retail environment. And and this was a year or two later, I just rediscovered love of apps as well. And just was like absolutely fascinated the fact that instead of launching on the same screen, the bit of code I’d written that I could launch it in a different screen, and I could launch it on other people’s screens, and just got really into app development. I did a master’s and interaction design. And that’s kind of how I got into AR so do you know augmented reality apps for for my master’s thesis, and eventually started doing some hackathons and a startup weekend, and then kind of spotted that that homeware was just such a big industry that had such low digitization and was so difficult to purchase things online for and it just seemed like a natural fit. And then seeing how the market was going with the likes of IKEA and Amazon and wayfarer. And all those big guys moving there, I, I decided that, you know, retailers, especially like in Ireland, and the you know, the death of retailers kind of like a big topic all the time. And us was just trying to corporate some tech that would that would help retailers and help people like myself, you know, like I was just trying to buy a desk at one time. And now just about I can squeeze into my room. So so I knew there’s obviously shoppers out there having this issue, retailers were having other issues, and I just have a love of I’ve taken some crazy colored font into a screen. And and I suppose they all kind of married together. And now I’ve got a small startup based in Ireland.

Dave: Very nice. So tell us just a little bit more about about the product there that you were working on.

Allen: So yeah, so definitely Absolutely. Like we basically specialized purely in creating AR content for retailers. So we take the 2d photos that they have on our websites. And we turn those into super detailed 3d models. And we don’t go for the automated route like some of our competitors would. But we go for much more of a bespoke kind of high quality experience where you can see every texture, you can see every scene, and every single pattern and an item. And we kind of work with those retailers to try and give us the best content possible to make those experiences possible for that for their shoppers. And as oftentimes, like the premium quality of the products, they really want to get that across freeway or as well. So just for the simple line of code, we we actually leverage apples AR two platform where you can embed content directly within Safari, and mail them on imessage. So with a click of a button, you can put a coach, a chair, a table, anything you want on or into into your room. So it’s it’s a really nice service to use. And, and we’re currently live, I think number 13 stores around the country with easy living interiors. So obviously online is the biggest presence, but we’re looking at doing a launch in store for easy living as well, I think they’re they’re launching a pilot of this in there, man point store that later on this month, actually, I think the 25th of April to 28. So if you’re in Cork, make sure to drop by.

Dave: Great. So so just so I can see the users can understand our users. I’ve been thinking about Software Development all day. The listeners can understand you would take an image, the 3d image and send that to someone or download it. And then you can through your phone into your room to see how that piece of furniture might fit.

Allen: 100% Yeah, exactly. You’re you’re using your phone as a lens, basically, to see something that isn’t really there. And it’s it’s it’s really fascinating tech, really, I suppose, like, I’m so close to it know that it’s it’s such a joy to show it to people who’ve never seen this before. They like they’re like, Wow, that’s amazing. And whereas I’m I use this every single day to test our items and and release new products. So the wow factor was lost to me a long time ago. So no, it’s it’s a great service to use to be honest, it’s such a pleasure to and to see people use it for the first time and just see that kind of moment of amazement said like wild is actually possible it’s real. And it’s there today. It’s not like some experimental tech in any in any fashion, you know?

Dave: Yeah, yeah. So with like the 3d imaging, the 3d models, is there a special photo tech? sure that you cover all area of the well, is it? Does it just know 360 degrees would just be around one access. So

Allen: Yeah.

Dave: What are you really?

Allen: And we’d actually like so the day if you wanted a kind of let’s say you automate the process like one like one of our competitors, for example, will try and take photos of all around a product at just the imagine they’re not even just that 360 degrees, horizontally, but also up and down and move around. And obviously that’s it’s quite time consuming and quite computationally heavy for a computer to do as well. Whereas what we do is more of like a game design process like a something you’d see in a visual effects movie or Playstation game, or PC game, we actually just use the manual process of recreating the item almost like a out of a clay block is kind of how I describe it. And being nicely painted. So it’s it’s almost it’s like artistic CAD is is the easiest way to describe it.

Dave: I gotcha. So do you do that? Do you do that personally? Or do you have artists? Or is it more like engineers that would do that what type of person creates that model?

Allen: It’s traditionally it will be a game. A game asset artist would would do it so so someone who’s who’s probably worked in a leading game studio would do this for us. And yeah, so like a texture artist, a 3d modeler, that type of thing.

Dave: Okay, do you like have a network of those people? Do you have a specific person? Is there someone working with you or outsourced or?

Allen: Yeah, all of the above ready, we’ve got like a really good connections as well, the weights, Limerick Institute of Technology, who’ve been really good to us and really, really pulled out of the bag, what’s some their best guide graduates in LIT, and Carmel so so we’ve got two really go graduates working for say, Elizabeth O’Connor and Ryan Dikes, and who imagine will be one of Ireland’s or two of Irelands, best designers coming up. And what they’re, they’re just amazing artists, texture artist, and 3d designers, and who are just making some really good content for us right now. Other than that, we’ve got people based all around the world from, as I say, from from Carmel to Kiev, basically is how I describe it. We’ve got people everywhere working for us, which is which is just absolutely amazing to, I suppose leverage the power of the internet, just it kind of blows me away sometimes that I can hire someone in Armenia who can turn out content for us on a daily basis, which is just, it boggles my mind, sometimes just to see the scale that’s out there.

Dave: Yeah, That’s the world, that I grew up in and it’s a lot different than it used to be. You know, I’ve been Ireland for 11 years. And when I moved here, there wasn’t a very good ability to even use Skype. I mean, it did exist. But like, the computers and the internet connections didn’t really support it so well. So I remember I was actually in an internet cafe, trying to ring back home. So that I could talk to people because you know, it was you know, before, before smartphones, I mean, there might have been like, I’m sure I still had a Palm Pilot at the time being that nerd that I am but I was already here when the first iPhone came out. So just seeing what’s different now we’re basically live in Star Trek.

Allen: It’s amazing. I mean, like, like I kind of say it like the the real land of opportunity is my laptop. You know, it’s on at a Starbucks you know, like Starbucks is for me Starbucks and a laptop to make the best possible combination. It’s it’s five euros a day for your office and your coffees and clear that that’s kind of how I say it. So so like, like, that kind of combination for me is just just being able to work from anywhere and connect with anyone on the planet is it just kind of blows my mind and just, it just it’s definitely a humbling the opportunity that that’s out there for us.

Dave: So other than the freelancer types and the people that you use to create the assets? Are there any other people in your company?

Allen: Yeah, so we’ve got myself, Mark Sullivan is and his keys kind of for the next let’s say I would say one to two months taking a slight pause to finish his final year project in product design. And it’s probably one of the most intense courses in the country. So he definitely needs to the little bit of slack from us at the moment I just being left alone, but I come summertime, I imagined Mark will be will be back will say and Mark is, a fantastic designer, as well as he works with our 3d designers and QA tests, all the other stuff, project managers everything, and just basically make sure our content is great. And on time and on budget. So he’s a valuable product for the company for sure.

Dave: That’s great to hear. What made you decide that it should be you know, a company? How did you get how did you start that process? What were your first few steps? And of course, as we all make miss steps?

Allen: Definitely, yeah. So I guess they what I decided it should be a company I guess, is seeing the the shoppers use this and and I suppose the trend of AR kit was really it. I mean, like, once I saw AR kit get released. And I think actually, yeah, that was it. I was working on this stuff before AR kit got release for maybe six months. And I was trying to mess around with this SDK on Android called CUDAN. Oh, my God, it was the biggest headache ever. I like the documentation didn’t match the tutorials, which didn’t match the comments, which didn’t match the the support files, like you know, it was just chaos. And the demo projects didn’t run. And I just I was just absolutely stuck. And then AR kit got announced. WWDC would have been what 70 and I guess, and maybe even 16. And I feel like I’m getting old. But when AR kit got announced I was like, okay, yeah, there’s something here for us to do. And obviously just worked really, really hard. I just was trying to teach myself and iOS development online. So literally just youtube tutorials, and you do videos and things like that, and got our pilot launched. And I got some really good data from that, from that back with some of the movie theater. So massive. Thank you to those those guys involved. And yeah, so so it was after seeing people use it on the day to come back. I was like, Are there something here? For sure. The missteps, for sure. For us like, like back in the, in the original days, I guess, of launching this in an app. And was we I should have, I should have not done any free trials are free or free demos, as much as I needed the data, I think that it would have been a lot more conducive for us to say like know, the travel costs money, and just recognize really, if people aren’t willing to pay that money, that they’re not my target customer and kill two birds with one stone. And, you know, I suppose that that, believe me by about three months, just to just a really, really validate and be just be even more ridiculous, I guess I wouldn’t even say this before. And I suppose confidence will be will be the way to describe it in the sales process and say, Look, I look, it’s fine. But you don’t want to purchase this, what I’m going to move on to someone that does want to purchase this, and just just acknowledge that click here in the process, I’d say and will be one of the mistakes that we made early on. So if we don’t that I think we’ve probably you would have had some great data anyway, but with some paying customers, who we would then obviously be able to validate as potential future clients and in our target market, etc, etc. You know. So that would have been one of our early missteps. And one of the steps that I recognize pretty quickly. And that was wrong with what we had is that we have is just did not want to get people onto that had all everyone I showed her. The day I’d shot I my demo would basically revolve around showing them a piece of our content. And they’d be like, wow, this is absolutely incredible. And I can’t wait to use this, what do I need to do? And I explained to them, oh, you to do is get all your users to download this app. And and then then they’d say, okay, and that seems a bit convoluted. And, you know, so is it my own app and like, no, there’s other people on the app to and the consumers, I’d say that kind of all the retailers like nope, they’re fully willing to open a store next to each other or different, that’s a foot but if you just say like digitally, digitally next to each other, they just don’t want to be they want to be a million miles away from each other. So it’s it’s fascinating culture, I guess in terms of like, you’d see Asus with brands like Adidas and Nike right next to each other, and put it in the retail space, that seems to be a little bit different there. So I did kind of, I kind of acknowledge that early on those, so I was kind of ready for that. And then as I said, with ARkit2 come and note we have the ability to do this within the web, and natively. So there’s no app download anymore. So it’s it’s a much more natural fit and we can focus just on the content really.

Dave: Yeah. You know, that’s got to be fantastic to be able to get your product into people’s hands with less reasons to be able to say no.

Allen: Yes, exactly.

Dave: We started iOS only, and we’re in the process of and almost ready to ship our Android version.

Allen: Amazing.

Dave: But you know, it’s still, there’s a lot to it. And I don’t know, any way that we could have done it without multiple native applications. But obviously, that’s taken us a lot more time than anyone with like. So being able to skip the the app step is pretty interesting. And you know, in fact, I was at the Dublin Tech Summit 2019, the last two days. And I saw a presentation from someone from Mozilla, or no Firefox, AR browser, or VR browser, sorry. And they were talking about, you know, there’s a large ecosystem of virtual reality applications that are built for the virtual reality browser. So that was really interesting to see. Yeah, so I just see an interesting corollary there with how you were able to just get past the app step and reduce friction.

Allen: So you said that it’s just just just to follow on there. This was actually easy. You mentioned that you’ve seen that the Mozilla, AR, VR browsers is it?

Dave: Yeah. Yeah. So that you can to sorry, listeners, we had a little technical difficulty. But I think we’re okay now. So I was talking about the Firefox VR browser. So there are virtual applications that are actually part of, you know, usable within the virtual reality browser. And I found that an interesting corollary to how you’re able to skip around needing an application.

Allen: Definitely, I mean, like, what, like, I’ve been looking at that stuff for ages beforehand, and just really been dying for a service like AR kit to come out, or AR kit tool I should say. And so as soon as that launched, I just knew straight away all right now, now is the time to go. It’s a race, and let’s see who’s gonna win it basically. So so I just knew I knew there was a space there for us to get into.

Dave: Yeah, um, do you see an, I’m a new all things AR and VR. I’ve In fact, never used VR, unfortunately. Do you see anything in the space of the two together? I would assume there is. But I wouldn’t know how either of the two verticals would consider if you understand what I’m saying. So augmented reality within a virtual reality context.

Allen: Interesting. Yeah. I’m, I’m not sure. It’s, I mean, like, if you think about it in in VR, you should be able to interact with, like, anything’s possible in VR, I guess, you know. And actually, let me let me try and take that question at a was a bit of a tangent. I don’t know if you’ve seen what Google have brought out recently with their Stadia project?

Dave: No, I have not.

Allen: So Stadia is a basically gaming. Like, if you could imagine your ideal a gaming rig, it’s basically you can use a Google server as your gaming rig, which is unbelievable. So you can pick up this, even start playing, let’s say, I think Assassin’s Creed was the example that they used, where you can pick up Assassin’s Creed on a mobile device, transition from the mobile device to an iPad, transition from that to a mouse and keyboard on a laptop, and then transition from that to a PlayStation controller on a TV. And all the time, you’re streaming 4k content in HD, or from a Google server on to each of those respective screens with all their different control types. And, and I think that doing like, the, I suppose my overacting point here is especially for us, like once we develop all this content, we’re now asking ourselves, okay, how can we we increase the value of this content, and you know, per file, and we’re looking at platforms like Facebook and Instagram, and what they’re doing with their Ar platforms is unbelievably interesting to us. And, and again, then with VR is a natural complement to us. So I suppose when we’re talking about and transitional technologies, and complementary technologies, for us content is the is the is the commonality between them all in that if we create us a sofa for a company. And Firstly, you like obviously, our main services to produce that in an AR environment, but will obviously be looking at coming up soon, is to say like, Oh, can we do a retail experience in VR, that attracts people into a store and leverage that same content repeatedly across different platforms and different devices and experiences and I suppose that’s kind of a roundabout way of answering that question.

Dave: That’s it. That wasn’t where my mind was going. Mine was going in to, obviously, more of the gaming space, because that’s where at the moment VR shines. I mean, I know there are loads more applications for it, you know, training of medical procedures being one of the ones that I’m, I’m actually aware of, but..

Allen: With by RSMD is it?

Dave: I’m not positive with the specifics of it, I didn’t just know that I’ve consumed content somewhere that was telling me about,

Allen: Perfect, I actually met at the two founders of our attendee, and as a AR/VR innovative, I don’t know if, if, if you’re familiar with that conference, but for anyone that’s listening, I’ll be I’ll be there this year, if you want to drop by these, the two founders are actually lovely. They definitely check out the company, they’re online, but they’re doing some fascinating stuff with and with with 3D tech, and like brains can brain scanning images, I think. So like you can view as opposed to being a brain scan, and normally on just like literally slivers of, of the scan and, and doctors will ignore, let’s say, I think I can’t remember the stuff they gave I don’t don’t quote it incorrectly. But let’s just say that they ignore 75% of the info for the sake of time, and be able to like the snapshot their way through a brain scan, versus, with what they can do with this is to get the whole thing done in 3D, and explore the person’s brain in 3D, it’s absolutely fascinating to see what they’re doing with that stuff.

Dave: That’s really interesting. So I know that you were in a few accelerator type programs, what what were what were the steps there that you went through? Which which programs and what value did you get from each of them differently?

Allen: Yeah, so I mean, like, the thing that really kick started me into into business, I suppose business tech, and, and entrepreneurship specifically, was, I don’t know if they’d run it again. But the the ESP did a thing called a big energy hack. And there was a hackathon events that I suppose had people from all different disciplines that it was designed coach software. And and and specifically ESP people were in the program too which is super interesting. And we’ve had a few kind of key streams. And I was on a dog patch labs in Dublin. And I was I was my first experience to look at co working space as well. And I can’t even remember who signed up to this thing. And he had just found one of the good Facebook ads. And I was like, Okay, I’ll put my name down for that. And I went to it and ended up ended up winning. And there was just, it was just such an unbelievable experience. And I finally said to myself, hey, look, and no, no, I know, we want to put it I suppose I was just absolutely thrilled and enjoying it through the whole weekend is that, hey, look, if I can stay up until 2am working for free on a weekend, I want to start my own business. And so so that was the kind of logic for me on an extended be there. I was like, Alright, cool. It just melt melted like the two parts of my brain together where I was like, all right, there’s tech. And then there’s business stuff. And then if we do it, right, if we get both of those bits right together, and we can actually have something that’s really fun to work with, and has been for in college, I had always done these, like tech projects, and my course was a bit more artsy focused. And I was always thinking to myself, look, no one’s going to buy this. And, like, this is just kind of like a useless exercise. And I’d love to apply this to a company or something like that, and just never sunk into me that I should be in the startup space because it just wasn’t part of my environment. And, and that’s where I kind of went on to do a startup weekend. Again, that was kind of a catalyst for me. And new frontiers was another program I went on, that was great, because I had zero business experience coming into it. And it was just a supposed to boot camp in, in how to, and how to operate a company and know there’s a bit of a about everything. And I I love that as kind of a CEO is just being dangerously knowledgeable in each area. And, and getting the experts in to help out with each with each category. And I absolutely love that part of it. And the jack of all trades really, I guess is kind of how I see myself how I would have seen myself in college as being really interested in in the audio side, the video side, the tech side. And, and this being the head of something kind of allows me to do that. And what and then startup boost was just an amazing program for us. And the 26:34, as a startup boost here and I think, I don’t know if anyone’s familiar with it. But I think it’s a it’s a like a pre accelerator program sponsored by TechStars and the global accelerator network in that success. And so it’s just absolutely incredible quality mentorship with it. And the mentors, there were just so so high level and it just gave me such a great appreciation of, of the phase that I needed to go at the intensity that I needed to sustain. And that’s something I didn’t get from any of our programs was just that that kind of like wow, this is what it means to be a successful entrepreneur and not just an entrepreneur.

Dave: So what so I know, you said you’ve got some some customers already, what what stage do you consider yourself at now?

Allen: Well, I definitely consider myself like a baby, in terms of a company like absolutely new to this stuff, and where we’re really only getting started. And in terms of a company we’ve just applied for a competitive start fund, which is a funny one abroad is the enterprise Ireland’s forming program for early stage startups where it’s 50 grand funding. And so we’re hoping he’s up to try and scale our service, get more sales, regards our processes and our tech, we’re relatively ready to go and we just need to get out there and get in front of these companies who have never heard of us who likely have never heard of augmented reality. And and I are available to get the benefits from it today. And so we’re really excited to get to get out there as quick as possible. And so I suppose looking to work with enterprise Ireland and other funding schemes and and and investors to accelerate us along the way.

Dave: Are you able to return any analytics of the augmented models? With the usage of it..

Allen: I unfortunately, I can’t share them in the AR space unfortunately. I can I can I can It’s all I can say is I’m absolutely astounded and thrilled with ourselves that we’re getting was a if I can, I can give you a ton of really cool industry that actually and there was a really cool survey published from I think, was retailer perceptions. And they surveyed 200 people in each category and show them a 2D ad next to a toy and people, I think they said that they’d 45% of them said they buy the toy. And they assigned a average price of four pounds and 99 cents to the toy. And when the show them the same totally in AR they 74% would buy the toy as seven pounds and 99 cent the exact same amount. And so they they enjoy the experience so much and attributed that enjoyment as a service. And in here, and I suppose extrapolated that enjoyment and quality of service into the product itself, which was so fascinating, because like a marketer could never walk up to someone on the street and say, Hey, watch this, watch this 32nd commercial of this toy, I’m going to charge you more for it. You know, it’s it’s a really fascinating flip on on on ads, which are which are essentially is an ad like, you know, it’s a it’s a 3D ad, but people are willing to pay for the service as opposed to and feel like it’s a drain on their life like a pre roll video on YouTube.

Dave: You know, I just, I know that you’re focused in the the space of what would you call it homeware, houseware?

Allen: Yes, yeah, homeware.

Dave: Homeware, more of the larger furniture type things, but I could see it as such a nice selling tool for smaller, handcrafted, say, detrimental, ornamental type of, you know, like woodworkers, or those type of things that they have small budgets, but have unique products that really make a lot of difference, being able to see them in their space, are you interested at all in those type of retailers, or you still just focused mostly on furniture for now?

Allen: I’ll never say no to a project for sure. They have a hesitation about that but for for, to for us to achieve scale, in creating the most high quality products, we have to kind of work with retailers that have products for manufacturers so that we can work with multiple retailers or once a time but, again, it depends. It depends on the product really. And so like some really simplicity products like I remember seeing some bar charts, like literally just something you put some drinks on and we’ll around your house, there was a guy in Florida, I think making those and I must must reach out to them again, now that you mentioned you just kind of spark that back and there are two years ago when I since I last chatted to him on Instagram. And was yeah, like I definitely be interested in like, our goal really is to kind of help retailers compete with giants. And whether whether they’re small or medium sized in the global scale or or micro you know, I definitely be be open to to help and retailers out. I mean, like the training trying to compete on the on a ton the tech space with Amazon and wayfarer entire good is hard. But I think like with AR and with AR kit too and with the content that we’re making, it’s it’s, it’s possible to actually provide the same service along this tangent specifically, if not better than what a lot of the big corporates are doing. So it’s it’s definitely a great thing for us to try and try and do for sure.

Dave: Yeah, and that’s the thing is a wonder whether tools like like this are a differentiator, or a type of thing that you have to do, you know, like, you can’t physically be a retailer now without an online presence, really, I mean, unless you’re making one of a handful of brick and mortar stores. So I wonder if you know, it’s going to be these, these people are really interesting because they have AR, or who the hell are those guys, they don’t have AR.

Allen: I think like it’s a matter of time, it’s just going to be a transition period. Because at the moment, like one of our, one of our clients bought us purely so that they could have the best tech. And a if AR into a bought into or bought into us or same that bought us but bought into us was purely because we had to say that we could give them the best tech and, and that’s something that has a time limit. And it’s something that we say to the all the clients we approach is, hey, look, the times now if you want to be like if you want to be seen as an innovator in the space, if you want to come back to us in two years time in three years time, and obviously really willing to do business. But that value proposition is gone by then you’re then you’re done a login a laggard to the industry, you get the same service get the same benefits, we get a different cognitive approach from the from the consumer is like oh you finally got the service versus a while you have this and it’s amazing and look at this, it’s so cool. And as I said, I’ve been working on this for for probably two years now at this stage, and the effect is worn off and me pretty well, in terms of that wow factor. So I imagine it’s going to be the same for people across the board. Now, obviously, at the moment this every single day. So maybe, let’s say 2,3,4 years time, people will expect to have this. And on the competitive edge that what you mentioned there was really interesting is like Kenny, can you afford not to have this and, and when your competitors are getting, like, for example, the the case study that I’d kind of mentioned this house in the States, and had a million AR content views and and 11 x increase in people being likely to purchase. And so like, absolutely insane figures there. If this is the not a 10% boost in sales, it’s not a you know, 20% breach to conversion rates. It’s much, much, much greater than that. And if you’re a competitor has that and you don’t. And you know, you’re not just losing out on the vanity metrics and the perception, the public perception, you’re losing out monetary at the end of the day.

Dave: So sorry, if I’m repeating myself, because I’ve had a long couple of days. So my memories kind of shift from from the time that one of your customers decides they want a product to be in the platform. How long between obviously timings of staff availability are an issue, but basically, what’s the average time between okay, we want that to a product being available?

Allen: Yeah, I often find that the sales process just worse that that question itself. So like, oftentimes, by the time he receives the email back you could have had the product made? So like, really it? You know, it’s it’s a funny question now that I think back in this isn’t like if, if he replied to the email last week, we would have had it built by now that that type of thing would be looking at quite a bit but no definitely it’s a great question. It depends on the product itself. I mean, sometimes we can get stuff done in the same day. Sometimes it can take a week, it really depends on the product. And we do a lot of smart stuff as well. Like we’d say multiple variants of the same product, whether it’s colors, dimension sizes, all that stuff, just to give the retailer’s the best kind of bang for buck and roll out speed as well. And so yeah, like we’d like there’s a lot of smart stuff we can do anywhere between a day in the week basically. But again, as I say the sales process happens the biggest like factor there and anything else.

Dave: Yeah, I was thinking about those early adopter fast adopter types who are shut up take my money, how long until..

Allen: Where are those

Dave: Yeah, they’re coming. They’re coming.

Allen: As I said to you before, but for your credit card details in here and there.

Dave: Well, if only I sold retail then I would definitely be a customer but.. I don’t think Medit quite suits.

Allen: You want to be damn sure that tracking’s on point before you..

Dave: If they want to see Medit on their phone, all they have to do is download it.

Allen: Exactly, exactly. The the tracking for AR medical stuff is you want to be sure to the left is left and right is right you know.

Dave: Well, luckily, we’re not dealing with patient information. We’re dealing with ongoing professional development. So don’t even know how that would go AR wise. So we’re just like a stack of papers. And most most healthcare providers could just look over to the desk and see the app.

Allen: Exactly.

Dave: I’m not sure how to say her name, Marie Kondo, or Maria Kondo, the the the lady who will join in your belongings. She has an AR product, and I can look around my house and remove all the clutter.

Allen: Oh, well.

Dave: I don’t know if she’s actually doing that. But I was thinking like..

Allen: Is this the is this the Netflix show? Is it?

Dave: Yeah, yeah.

Allen: Yeah, I could deal with that to be fair. Um, but yeah, definitely.

Dave: I want to see some AR that will remove things as opposed to add them into my home.

Allen: Yes. It’s funny that you mentioned that is because I like I think it’s probably been mean before, but like, what those ad blocker for AR glasses look like, you know, you can walk through Times Square with no shining lights, and no, no clever and no billboards. And I think it’s kind of a fascinating concept really.

Dave: That’s interesting. Hmm. Um, let’s see, what what what haven’t we covered that you think is important for people to know, about about your company?

Allen: Yeah, so I supposed in terms of the, like, for myself, like one thing I’d love to have, and is discovered entrepreneurship sooner. And, and that’s something that I, in terms of, like, I’d be absolutely super passionate about, like, I went to school there maybe a month or two ago, and just say I supposed to have a similar discussion that we’ve had here today. And, and, and just plant the seed of that this is a viable thing. And because like, when I was growing up, that, it seems kind of far fetched, and I just never glued it together. And all you know, all that PlayStation that could have been playing, I could have been a twitch streamer to like, the, there’s just such a as a wealth of opportunity out there. And if you’re good at something, and if you’re, if you’re passionate and knowledgeable about something that you can turn it into a marketable product, like, you know, if you’ve got 40,000 followers on Instagram, because you love and, you know, cups, and you your your cup collector, like someone, someone, someone who run ads on your on your platform for you, like, you know, it’s it’s fascinating to, to see what’s possible nowadays. So it was just just for me, I’d love to get into us was promoting it more. And I’ve heard that a few startup weekends and things like that. And I supposed was just trying to discover entrepreneurship sooner or something like that and be passionate about it.

Dave: Cool. I’m what are, what;s your next steps?

Allen: Yeah, so for us, I think like this week, we’re waiting to hear back from the competitive start fund as to whether we get it or not.

Dave: Right, right.

Allen: And so that’ll that’ll kind of lay ourselves and in timing wise for the next few months. And for the next steps, I’m really trying to scale up my sales process at the moment, get out there and get to conferences, get in front of these companies that don’t know about us don’t know about AR or they know about AR or they haven’t heard of us yet. And so trying to scale up Facebook ads, and got some interesting topics coming up with Facebook themselves, whether AR platform and and in-strict fascinating to see what Instagram is doing Instagram is going to be the best possible e commerce platform that you can get on or if not already is, and it’s just skews so much towards popularity in that everything like every single e commerce page out so every single Instagram page there now is now fully fledged e commerce website would check out with their AR soft that’s coming and in the works and and half done. You can that you can view products, market product experience products and buy products or with an Instagram. And that’s just something that’s absolutely blowing my mind. And that’s possible to do you know.

Dave: That sounds really nice.

Allen: So I suppose just leveraging those platforms, I guess is is, is what’s going to be key for us over the next over the next six to 12 months.

Dave: Brilliant. So who’s your favorite not favorite, ideal customer? Mid to large sized furniture or other homeware manufacturer?

Allen: Pretty really like anyone anyone with a with a decent marketing budget and less than billion in sales. And I say less than a billion because the big guys are doing it themselves already. You know, like the like IKEA, etc all those guys there, they have the budget they have the know how they have the the marketing teams, we haven’t decided this is a good idea. Let’s go for it. And so yeah, so definitely those those smaller retailers and I don’t want to say smaller retailers like there’s still a massively big companies. So definitely just getting into those guys and show them the benefits. And I said if they’re abroad, given them the case studies that we’ve worked on so far, and for us, like in terms of working with people, I’d love to work with them furniture manufacturers and and try and bring this that our products and disseminate that to their clients, you know, their existing retailers and kind of a one to many sales process. So I’d love to work with more retailers or more manufacturers and more retailers but by by product and ultimately though it’s I suppose it’s it’ll be great to see some some photos come in and people who purchase products and the the real versus the, the augmented real and see the differences and see people use this in real life as if we’re getting some great, great data in at the moment, and we’re really just trying to scale up and get the say get his global you know,

Dave: Awesome. So, anything else?

Allen: No, I suppose like if you haven’t used AR already, and if you have an iPhone, head to our website, and experience it for yourself and let me know what you think. If you’re anywhere in involves into retail chain, popped me an email Allen that’s [email protected] and, and, you know, as I said, look, I’d love to try and help people discover entrepreneurship younger than I am, than I could. So I definitely love to try and help on another aspect also and that’s key.

Dave: Okay, so that’s the email, I’ll put the links to those things in the show notes. Is Is there any other social media platform that people should reach out, reach out to you on.

Allen: I’m probably most active on Instagram. So if you hit me up on on Instagram or LinkedIn, it’s just adding the mixed it on both platforms. So and if you want the you want the business side and if you want to the realistic side, the the stressful light side, follow me on Instagram or if you want the the glassy portfolio follow me on LinkedIn, you know.

Dave: All right, great stuff. Thank you so much for joining us.

Allen: Thanks so much. Dave is great to catch up with you again. It’s great to get to hear about what I meditating for sure.

Dave: Yeah, look forward to having you back after after you’ve grown a little bit more.

Allen: I loved it. Loved it.

Dave: Great. And thank you all for listening.

Until next time, remember any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.